Businessman Suing Sean Feucht Speaks Out

SPEAKERS: Julie Roys, Steve Bray, Sean Feucht

Note: This is a rough transcript and may contain some misspellings.

Julie Roys  00:06
In 2020 when covid had shut down most of the country, Sean Feucht defied government mandates and organized mass outdoor worship gatherings.

Julie Roys  00:20

The events captured the attention of California businessman Steve Bray.

Steve Bray  00:24

That happened, Sean came up as, hey, this guy’s out there doing ministry.

Julie Roys  00:30

So Steve met with Sean and agreed to give him $250,000 to fund 10 or more stops on Sean’s 2023 let us worship kingdom to the Capitol tour. But now Steve believes Sean spent the money on himself. Since 2020 Sean Foyt Ministries has purchased nearly $7 million in property, according to the Associated Press. This includes two properties in Washington, DC and San Juan Capistrano, California, plus 450 acres in Texas and a hunting cabin on 40 acres in Montana. Foight and his wife Katie also personally own another property in Montana, a condo in California, a home near Bethel Church in Redding, California, and seven rental properties in Pennsylvania.

Steve Bray  01:23

How does a worship leader with you know some worship songs? How does he have that much money coming in? It must be from his operations to be able to own that much property.

Julie Roys  01:38

In addition to his accumulation of property, nine people who worked for Floyd have signed a public statement accusing him of long standing misconduct, this includes abuse of power, fraud, embezzlement and a consistent pattern of misusing ministry resources. So now, Steve Bray wants his money back, and he recently filed a lawsuit against Sean Foyt and his ministries to recover his $250,000 and today, Steve joins me to discuss his fight for accountability and justice. Welcome to the Roys report a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. You Steve.

Julie Roys  02:32

Well, joining me now is Steve Bray, a California business owner who’s suing worship leader Sean Foyt to try and recover $250,000 he donated to Foyt. Bray says he donated the money believing foight would use it for stops on his 2023 let us worship kingdom come to the Capitol tour instead. Bray says Foyt used the money for himself. So Steve, welcome. It’s a pleasure to have you join me. Thank you, Julie. So Steve, you’re obviously a very generous person. You’ve given a lot to ministries, and now you believe that you’ve been defrauded out of, again, $250,000 that must be a really disheartening thing, to give that much money and then feel like you don’t know where this money went,

Steve Bray  03:21

Yeah, and in I have a five, one, c3 called the giving University. And we take great lengths to research and look at people that are doing ministry, and, you know, basically all over the world. And we’ve been in 25 countries, and we do things around the country, here in the US, and when we see something that we really feel, that we should get involved with, we take great pains to figure out what’s going on. And so that’s another reason why it’s a real, you know, sore spot, because, you know, the worst thing we could do, we’re making money to stimulate the kingdom, and then to have somebody basically use that money for themselves. And you know, we’re very much against that across the board, within ministers.

Julie Roys  04:13

I mean, just in full disclosure you’ve given to the Roy’s report before. Yes, okay, so just full disclosure so that we’re just being completely above board here. But take me back to when you first met Sean Foyt. What What was the situation there, and what was your impression of him at first?

Steve Bray  04:33

So the way that came about was one of my board members, you know, was looking into what Sean was doing around, you know, in in the let us worship sort of piece, and covid had shut down the churches, and we were outraged by the fact that covid was shutting down businesses and hurting people all across the country, and then church. Churches. And then pastors were not willing to get out there and really, you know, preach the gospel and say enough of this. And, you know, we kept our company open fully, and basically told people we’re not buying into this. And we so when that happened, Sean came up as, hey, this guy’s out there doing ministry. We saw ministry at the beach with another individual, and we were like, how can we help these guys? We need to, you know, what does it take, you know, to move this down the road and keep you out there moving

Julie Roys  05:41

and of course, during covid was when Sean became really famous, at least within, I would say, conservative Christianity. He became much more well known. He raised a ton of money. He went from making, you know, maybe hundreds of 1000s with his organization, to making millions. And so that was a time when he was bringing in a lot of money, when you contacted him, and actually, did you have a face to face, or was this over the phone that you guys talked? Or how did, how did that happen, that you were able to talk about your specific donation?

Steve Bray  06:19

We do a lot of research, and so we like to do face to face. So he was local, so we said, come and talk to the giving University. Or there was eight of us in the room, plus my assistant and different board members will will say, hey, we really need to hear from this ministry or this, this thing. And then, you know, that’s for the general populace of how we distribute money. And then the board can bring people in. And so they brought it, brought Sean in, and we invited him in, and he showed up here. And we said, okay, what are you doing? And he started talking about what he was doing and the impact. And we had already done some research, and we knew that we didn’t know that he converted one of his ministries to a church, which is, you know, this is a whole different sham thing that people are doing, using, using, closing off the 990 forms to the open public, and they don’t have to publish what they’re doing. And they do parsonages, and they do all these, you know, crazy loopholes, which are another part of the sham. We didn’t know that he was doing that at that point, but he did have quite a treasure of money, of which we asked him, Well, what’s happening with this $5 million that you’ve got a coffers? And he said, Well, we’ve this is all committed, and we’re going out. We’re doing more. And he, you know, told us this story, very convincing, by the way, by the way, he’s very, very, very convincing. And so we asked him as many hard questions as we could. He, you know, gave us a report, which is going to be a part of the lawsuit about what he was doing. And we, you know, he left, and we talked about, hey, you know, we want to help this guy accomplish this tour that he’s doing. And we all agreed on giving $250,000 now I just want to say, you know, our board, my wife and I are the funders of the giving University, we’re not we don’t have a donate button, so we’re not collecting outside, outsiders money. This is our money that we’re making through our company power plus. And then we fund the giving University, and then the giving University has a whole process of how we disseminate that money. Part of it is that we educate people on generosity. So that’s half of what we do. We have students that come to our courses eight weeks we we give all the students 1000 bucks, and we tell them, Go find something local, research. It. Learn how to do the research. And we have a whole rating form. We do that with, with, live with the students, and as they’re processing that questions, answers, biblically based, you know, giving informed and then, and then after that, we team them up and we send them around the world to go research organizations. So once they’ve done the eight weeks, they become our ambassadors, and we send them out. So we’re trying to train, you know, a ton of people, on how to do generosity correctly, and then see the world for what you know, what’s. Happening outside of America, which I call Disneyland, near boarding on Disneyland, you have no perspective of what is really happening to $7 billion 7 billion people in the world. And so it’s a whole different, whole different thing. So that’s the giving University. And then we also all look for great opportunities to help. And one of the things at the time of covid was this crazy thing. Of all, the churches are shutting down. All these people are committing suicide, stuck in houses and and being told, you know, not to come out and, and you know, all of a sudden, you know, Sean shows up, and it’s like, let us worship. And it’s like, yeah, let us worship. And we bought into it, hook, line and sinker, until we got we got informed a whole different way.

Julie Roys  10:54

And I appreciate what you’re doing so much of what we do is trying to inform the public about giving smart, right, informed donors, because I really believe that’s the only way we’ll see reform. If people continue to give to ministries where they’re not using their money properly, they’re going to keep doing it because they can get away with it, and we’ll continue to give it. So this kind of education is important. And what you were mentioning about becoming a church, which, again, you have Christian nonprofits declaring that they’re churches, which is what Sean Foyt did with one of his ministries. And then, unlike all of the secular nonprofits that have to file 990s state who their top three wage earners are, say where their money goes, any interested persons like family members or whatever that contract with them, they have to report those. I mean, all of that has to be disclosed. But for some reason, and probably it’s the separation of church and state, and we don’t want the state being involved in the church’s business, but it’s gotten to the point now where it’s become a shield from any kind of accountability, where you just it’s they’re not reporting. So Christian nonprofits, churches, or any ministry that’s claimed it’s a church, really, and got that designation from the government is allowed to basically shield what they’ve they’ve done with your money. So a donor like you, how do you know when you give to a church or when you give to a ministry that doesn’t file a 990 How can you know where, where that money goes?

Steve Bray  12:25

So my mentor, John Wimber, at one point, he could see the Doom coming for, you know, for the abuse of churches, using hiding behind, paying high wages while you know, they have volunteers and people working for them that are getting, you know, low wage, low pay. And he could see that. And he said they’re coming today is a day when the church won’t be able to hide behind this whole thing, and maybe even the tax, the tax deduction gets taken away. And he said this profoundly, because then we’ll find out who’s really the givers. Because they’re not just doing it motivated for a tax write off on the churches are doing it, you know, as a as a shield to use. I think you know why vote would be. Churches, you know, should not have a shield at all. I don’t care about the, you know, church, separation of church and state, that’s that’s something that’s very protective, but it shouldn’t be shielded some knowing what people are doing. So you asked the question about, How do we give to churches? And no one we don’t give to churches for unless they fill out our special giving University form, okay? And we, and then we also use the tool and technique of designating the funds. So if they’re doing a big building program, we don’t give to that because that, you know, this is just harming the church at large, because everybody’s building their their big building. We want it to go to pragmatic things that people are doing really great work. And so we we do that now, on the on the, not on the organizations that have 990s we actually, you know, figure out what they’re doing. We have ratios for that. And then we teach you have to go to know. So what are they doing? You have to go see it. You have to go observe. So we follow all of those, all of those disciplines, and and so. And, you know, by and large, I mean what we could see, you know, from what Sean was doing, is that he was out there. It was, yeah, you could see it. It was, it was, you know, not an act. You could see the that happening. But I think what, what we’ve seen is good organizations. Oh, bad, bad people. People, all of a sudden get, all they have to do is put on their social media and tell, you know, some sad story. And then everybody comes in, gives them money, and, you know, the old GoFundMe sit, you know, signaling and all that. And then all this money rushes in, and then, oh, he’s got this pile of money. You know now what to do with it? Well, just, you know, in my, in my opinion, if what he’s done is enrich himself, that’s why I’m trying to get to the bottom of it. And if, you know, if he has not enriched himself, just give me my money back, and I’ll go, I’ll go disseminate it to another organization that I can get eyeballs on and doesn’t have all this controversy. And, you know, multiple properties all over the kind I mean, how does, how does a worship leader with a, you know, some worship songs, how does he have that much money coming in, it must be from his operations to be able to own that much property.

Julie Roys  16:09

And we’ll get into the properties. But before I do that, I’m just wondering, was that what first tipped you off to my goodness, what did he do with my money? I mean, when did you start to suspect this money had been mishandled.

Steve Bray  16:22

At some point, some of my friends and some of the people that I’m, you know, working around said, Boy, this Sean, he’s got, you know, he’s got a lot of bad, you know, a lot of bad press around him. And I was actually in DC. My daughter lives in DC, and I heard that he was out there. And so I went to meet, I went to go meet him. And we were, you know, he’s, you know, friends with a lot of political people. And so I went to meet him at his place, at his parsonage, and and, and he said, Yeah, we’re using this for ministry and prayer meetings and things like that. And I was like, that doesn’t really resonate, because I know what the property costs around, you know, the Supreme Court, you know, in that area. So I’m, you know, that that perked my interest. And then people started to tell me. And then I, you know, I read some my my wife, you know, she constantly scouring and reading, and she, you know, she does. I don’t have any social media, so I’m not out there, you know, reading and looking at it and getting hits on on different things. So that’s the but I have so many people that do have it, and I get flooded in my text, have you seen XYZ? And so that was one of the things that came up. And then I was put in contact with some of his ex employees, and, you know, just ask them the question, hey, you know, what’s going on? Is this on the up and up? And what did they tell you? No, it’s not on the up and up. And there’s a lot of questions about how he’s handling finances and and essentially not even paying people correctly and doing some of the things. Those were some of the answers. And so, you know, I, I have no conclusions until I see the facts, which the facts will come out in in this litigation. And if he’s done everything flying, guess what? I lose, he keeps some money, and we all move on if, if the facts are not the case, then are, you know, I win, and you know, he has to pay back the money he’s, you know, deceitfully taken. If that’s the case, yeah.

Julie Roys  18:54

Well, let’s talk about the properties. This is pretty stunning. According to the Associated Press. They did an investigation on Sean Foyt. Sean Foyt Ministries has purchased nearly $7 million in property since 2020 How much do would you say the property you saw that you’re saying was near the Supreme Court? How much do you think that was worth?

Steve Bray  19:16

Well, my daughter bought a house there. So you know, her house cost 1.4 million, and it’s the same size and same location, so and, and she’s now selling that, so it’s now, you know, probably a couple million dollars. You know what? You know what they paid for that

Julie Roys  19:34

very expensive property there in DC. And that’s one of two he has, yeah, he also has one in San Juan Capistrano, California, plus 458 acres in what’s called the Swiss Alps of Texas. I honestly didn’t know that Texas had a Swiss Alps, but apparently that’s what it’s called. Must be a beautiful place there in Texas, and a hunting cabin on 40 acres in. Montana, plus Voight and his wife personally own another property in Montana, a condo in California, a home near Bethel Church in Redding, California, and seven rental properties in Pennsylvania. Their homes are valued at $4.5 million plus Sean Foyt ministries. So his ministry gave him a $48,000 housing allowance in 2020 that was the last time, I believe that we could actually see the the 990s so that’s what he did in 2020 I don’t know what his housing allowance is now. He was paid a salary, though, of 119,000 but he’s also receiving some salaries from his other ministries, taking $37,000 from light a candle, 17 and a half 1000 from burn. 24/7, again, this was all in 2020, so I don’t know what he’s making now, because, again, we’re dealing with a ministry that is not filing 990s anymore. But how does somebody making 100 and, you know, whatever 1000 per year amass those kind of properties? I mean, that’s the kind of property you would expect of a, you know, I’m thinking, close to a billionaire, to get that many properties to be spending.

Steve Bray  21:20

If he had an enterprise, you know, of $100 million a year, you know, he could, you know, divert money however he wants. I mean, I own quite a few properties myself, both commercial and couple of properties, one in Wyoming and one in in Newport Beach. But, you know, I look at that and I go, I you know, this guy’s what, 35 to 40. I don’t know how old he is.

Julie Roys  21:49

He’s a worship pastor. Yeah, he’s a worship leader.

Steve Bray  21:54

Yeah, none of this, none of this makes sense, none of it fits together. So when something doesn’t fit, you have to take it apart, which you know is the point of the of the lawsuit. And you know he needs to come he needs to basically come clean.

Julie Roys  22:13

And do you know his board members, like, who’s on his board and how that’s operating?

Steve Bray  22:20

No, I don’t, by virtue of, you know, public knowledge that he’s on Sean Bowles board, and then, you know, got off of that when he got turned up. It’s it for, in my opinion, it becomes a cabal of, you know, bad, bad things happening. And I just want to emphasize one thing, so when this is the first time we’ve seen a ministry go sideways, well, I was working with, I was actually on the board of a ministry, and the the what was happening was this guy was misusing funds, and he was having sexual relationships with with women that were inside his organization, and then basically blackmailing them. And you know, five years before, before he got all in, did a with the money. He he was, he was a good guy. I went visited his ministries. We hadn’t given any money, but on the board, somebody had donated $40,000 of their real estate money to this guy. And we sent it back to him. We just, you know, wrote a check, and we said, very sorry, we can’t fund this guy anymore because of of his activity. So it’s very common and and a lot of times, what happens is people start off with a great intent. They’ve got, you know, great charisma, they do amazing things, and then, you know, all it all goes bad. So we don’t like at the giving University, we don’t just give and then give and then give and then give in in a line we give, we’ll learn about the organization. How are they doing? Are they staying on tasks? Because there’s so much mission creep with all these organizations that are out there and, and frankly, the money gets to them. And you know, especially you know we, we all know the, you know, the rule, the the three G’s, the gold, the girls and the glory, you know. And, and when one of those raises their ugly head. You know, it’s probably sure that something else is coming behind that, which we don’t know what, but we’ve seen it over and over again and and to be honest with you, the you know, back to the the giving stats only 2.7% Percent of Christians. Now I’m just talking about Christians, not the secular world. Tithe or give properly. Part of that is, what am I giving to? Who’s you? What’s, what’s the transparency? Even with churches, I you know, what I would say is, hey, you know, have transparency. What do you hide? What? Why do you need to keep the government and your parishioners out of the books of of the church that they’re going to and they’re

Speaker 1  25:30

they’re giving to tithing to, why?

Steve Bray  25:33

What you know, why does that? Why does that have to be that way?

Julie Roys  25:37

Absolutely, and these are some of the principles for folks listening, because some of the things you learn, the more that you study these things, is exactly what you just said when you’re talking about boards. For example, He Sean Foyt served on Sean Bowles. Board, well, guess who served back when they were disclosing who was on their board? Guess who served on Sean Floyd’s board. Well, Sean Bowles, so you see this, you know, kind of this reciprocal thing where you have people serving on each other’s boards. So there’s kind of a you help me. I’ll help you. And that’s how we’ll scratch each other’s backs. And people need to look at boards. To me, if they won’t disclose their boards, then we need to say we’re not going to give like you don’t want to disclose your board. And honestly, one other full disclosure is that your your attorney who filed this lawsuit for you, happens to serve on our board. All I can say is, anybody that has her on their board will not get away with anything, you know. And we kind of go by okay, if this is publicized, what would people think? Would they be okay with this? And then it’s like, we put that through the grid, and we, I tell you my board, but they’re independent. My board is independent. They don’t I don’t give them a salary, I don’t give them anything. They are, you know, again, they’re independent board members, but so often on these boards, you find staff members, you find family members, you find wives and spouses. I mean, it’s, it’s really, it’s really just a racket. And so I just really encourage people find out who’s on the board. Find out where that money’s going. Find out how much the people, the you know, what are the top wagers earning, and if they won’t give that to you, that should be a huge, huge red flag. And I remember, I remember being on staff at a church and once saying, Well, wait, well, how much does our pastor make? And them saying, Well, you know, that’s personal. And I remember the time thinking, Okay, well, I guess it’s personal. You know, kind of, I was only in my 20s at the time, or early 30s, and so I was kind of like, okay, now I’d be like, Oh, well, me giving you money is personal too. So I mean, either you you give me that information, I’ve just found so few people know even how much their pastors make, or are even willing to make that an issue. And yet they expect us to give 10% of our salary to them without disclosing, you know, what they’re doing with it. It’s, it’s really obscene, what, what’s being what’s happening right now. And so, you know, I’m glad for things like this, because, and I have been, I’ve been sued before, just once. Thank God. But actually, it became something that, I mean, I joke about it now about it being sort of Christmas come early, because when I got sued, I got sued by James McDonald in harvest Bible chapel, and I knew where all the bodies were buried, but I had people that didn’t want to give me information, but if I subpoenaed that information, they were more than happy to give it to me, You know, and so now you, because you’ve brought a lawsuit, are able to subpoena these, these documents, and all you’re asking for is my understanding you’re asking for, I want to see direct line, where did my money go? Is that right? Right?

Steve Bray  28:56

And, and, or, you know, pay that money back. You know, immediately, you know, the apostle Paul said, flee every appearance of evil. So even sometimes that takes us into lengths of like, oh brother, you know, well, you know, it’ll look bad. So you definitely want to be careful. And let me also speak to the personal. When someone says, Well, that’s personal. You know what? What a pastor makes? No, it’s not. The pastor has walked into the light, and he needs to have everything disclosed. If you want to be personal, start a company. You can, you can. You don’t have to tell anybody your what your what your salary is, but if you’re in ministry, you better be willing to, you know, pony up and when they don’t want to do it, huge, red flags, sirens, you know, yellow, red lights.

Julie Roys  30:00

Supposed so it’s really disconcerting what’s going on and yet, how many people just really as donors, they’re not educated to know. But I think that’s changing, and I think things will change too. When donors like you say, hey, I want to see the facts. What happened you had mentioned. What happened with those that are coming forward, former employees of Sean foyts, they signed a public statement, and in that public statement, they accused him of long standing misconduct, including embezzlement, wire fraud, failure to report income to the IRS. I mean, these are some pretty major things that they’re accusing him of doing. But here’s the thing, do you have any hope that the IRS is actually going to go after him?

Steve Bray  30:57

I don’t know what you know brings things to a certain level. I do know that if you get this information in the right in front of the right people, and you bring it to their attention, they they literally have to do something about it. You know, I’ve been audited, you know, multiple times, Deloitte and touches my audit firm. I had an I had a IRS auditor in my in my office for a year, and we have framed on the wall in the other room a no change audit. Because if you get a no change audit, that’s like gold, right? That we did everything you know, in accordance, in in line. That doesn’t mean you can’t you know you’re not that it’s not possible to make mistakes, then you just have to take corrective action. But what’s important is fleeing every appearance of evil, and he’s got appearance of evil, in my opinion, all over the place,

Julie Roys  32:02

all over the place, all over the place. And audits are no fun. So if you’ve been through one of those, I remember my parents. My dad made a good salary. He gave away so much money, the IRS wouldn’t believe it, and so they audited him. And they audited him several times, and one time they actually found a deduction they hadn’t taken, so they ended up paying them money back. So the IRS, after that happened, I think they sort of backed off. But again, sometimes those who are generous that being generous can become a trigger for the IRS to say, Oh, they’re not really giving this money away, are they?

Steve Bray  32:39

That’s a great problem to have, and your your dad, if he is, he still alive?

Julie Roys  32:45

No, he just passed away last year.

Steve Bray  32:47

He’s sitting on a pile of treasure in heaven because he paid it. He paid it into the Kingdom forward, which is, you know, the principles that I learned from my mentor, you know John Wimber, and my, you know, my grandparents and different people that. And then you know, God mentoring us through starting the giving University in 2005 so that’s, that’s, well, what? That’s the goal, right there.

Julie Roys  33:17

Well, you mentioned John Wimber. For those who don’t know John Wimber. He was the founder of the vineyard movement. I was in vineyard. In fact, my husband and I served on staff for vineyard for several years when we were in our 30s, and it was a wonderful time. We did youth ministry, and we absolutely loved those kids, and we loved the vineyard. And I love John Wimmer. One of my favorite sayings by John was a great thing about the Kingdom of God is that everybody gets to play, and there was no spectating. It was like, you and I loved they were they would free you up to do ministry, like we started a ministry, and they came alongside us, and they were kind of like, hey, force us to hire you. And they ended up hiring us because we started this youth ministry, and then we brought it into the church. And it was, it was really a delightful time as a wonderful time of seeing God move. It’s been sad, I think, since John died, to see, you know, vineyard music was such a wonderful ministry. And it’s, it seems to have just kind of been eclipsed. But what happened to you? You were at the Anaheim vineyard, which was kind of the flagship vineyard where it all started. So you knew John up close and personal, and you were, I’m guessing you gave a lot of money to that Anaheim vineyard as well. And what has happened since Alan Scott, and Alan and Catherine Scott came in you? I mean, the church, Anaheim vineyard, invited them in to be the pastors. And for those who don’t know this story, because this is, I mean, if, if your lawsuit is successful, and. It turns out you were defrauded by Sean Floyd. It would not be the first time. It would be the second time, because what happened there in Anaheim vineyard, they invited Alan Scott to come in. And he really, it seems like with, I mean, it was with the board’s approval, but I guess he kind of stacked the board, right?

Steve Bray  35:21

They so again, he had all power. He had all power to do that. But he, I mean, he deceived everyone coming in by, by, you know, by saying, I would never dishonor John and Carol Wimber or the vineyard, by changing the name or taking it out of the vineyard, and, you know, and later on, and he made statements like, I’m vineyard, through and through and, you know, in and and did, did a bunch of things in in the course of him taking that position. And I, you know, I’m just telling you, it’s a, you know, it’s a real big problem, and more to come on that story in the not too distant future from us that are tracking that. But, but I, you know, I think the you know, the biggest thing about generosity, and one of the biggest buzz kills on it is we keep seeing these people grifting off of Chancellor research and hospitals and all, all of these different things. And, you know, that’s part of what we’re trying to help people understand in the giving University is teaching them how to, you know, pick, and we always and we and this is another principle, besides, you got to go to No. Is that a no to something bad or mediocre, or is a is a yes to something great? And so that’s what we’re trying to get people to focus on. You have control of it, and a lot of pastors and a lot of prosperity people will tell you, Oh, you know, given faith and you can’t, you know, if you, if you don’t give them faith, well, faith isn’t, you know, it doesn’t excoriate, you know, thinking and figuring things out and investigating and learning about it before you give in faith to to that thing, because even once you launch the gift, it requires people to do what they say they’re going to do with it. And so all of this is just, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s very, very important. That’s, you know, part of our, part of our passion with the giving University.

Julie Roys  37:44

I just want to close that loop on the vineyard Anaheim. For those who don’t know, not only did Alan Scott change the name to dwelling place, but he took the church out of the vineyard and gave him control of a paid off building, completely paid off worth. What was it? 57 million, something like that

Steve Bray  38:04

at the time, where, at the time, when that it was disclosed to him, it was 62 million. Was $7 million cash in the bank, all debt free. And that building that right now is worth about $110 million on the market. And, wow. He and, you know, we’re never going away. We, you know, he’s going to have to live with us for the rest of his life, unless he decides to do the right thing and turn it back over to the original board and and and go, you know, back under some rock she needs to crawl under and to get away from us, yeah, because we’re never going away.

Julie Roys  38:47

And your group, it was a group of nine people, including Carol Wimber to start with. And Carol passed away, yeah, and that’s John wimber’s widow, so now it’s eight of you. You sued the church wanting, basically your money back, like you had given for years and years and years to this church. And basically Alan just took it, you know, he took this church, and it was decided, apparently, the bylaws were written in such a way that members aren’t really members. They’re associate members. If you’re not on the board, only the board were voting members. And this is one of those things too. Where? Where? It’s like people are giving thinking, you know, I’m a member of the church. Most churches, by the way, if you look at their their articles of incorporation, you’ll find this has become so popular that there are no members. The only members are the directors, and the directors are the board members. And so the membership that you have in so many churches isn’t a real membership. There’s no legal standing that you have in that organization. And so you can tithe for years and years and years, and this sort of thing can happen where something can be done with. The Church completely against the will of the congregation, and there’s not much you can do.

Steve Bray  40:04

Yeah, and John set it up, believing that the next person that would step into that role would not abuse the rules that they had set, all you know, over the board and, and, and obviously, you know, Alan saw that angle, and this is why we think it was very premeditated. He He saw that angle, and he said, Yeah, we really do need to adjust these, you know, adjust this whole thing. And, and then he put banning leapsher Jeremy riddle his wife, Catherine, Scott and, and put sir Pete, Greg and, and, you know, a few others on there. Oh, by the way, nobody else has left on that board, except for, except for Greg sheer. And they all, I have no idea why they do it, but they just, you know, cower to Alan’s like, if you don’t submit to what I’m doing, then you will miss the revival that’s coming because of me. It’s like, hello, hello,

Julie Roys  41:20

and the church from from everything I’ve seen, the congregation has shrunk pretty consistently. So the revival that he promised isn’t coming, apparently. And anyone who would behave this way, I mean, honestly, this even, I think of you know, in scripture where it talks about doing things that even unbelievers don’t do. I mean this, course, unbelievers do Swindle. Unbelievers do do this sort of thing, but, but whoever thought that someone could come in and just take millions, 10s of millions, 100 million, you’re saying it’s probably worth now a paid off building and property from the congregation that gave that money for decades, that that church had been there for decades. It’s, it’s just, it’s heartbreaking.

Steve Bray  42:09

He lives in a $2 million personage, you know, with his, his, you know, his, his free rent, and you know, makes, you know, a gob of money on top of that, and his wife’s on staff, and his his kids.

Speaker 1  42:25

I mean, it is a family business, yeah, a family theft, yeah,

Julie Roys  42:32

absolutely it is, absolutely is. And this is why I say, you know, sometimes I’ll say to people, when you give to the Roys report. Think of it as, you know, kind of insurance for your donations because, because what we’re doing is trying to expose what’s going on there, as far as the misconduct. So, yeah, give to these ministries. Give generously to them. We’re not asking for your church, you know, the money that you owe to your church that you’re going to but what we’re saying is help us so that we can continue to hold them accountable to you know, say, Hey, you have to be transparent with what you’re doing, because there is, right now, the government’s not holding them accountable. The Christian media isn’t holding them accountable. For the most part, they’re running PR for them. I mean, we’ve gotten stories. Our biggest story of last year was a Michael Tate story, and that story was turned down by two Christian media. We were the ones willing to publish it. Because why? We’re not a part of the evangelical industrial complex. We’re not being funded by them. We’re independent, and we’ll do that, but it’s what’s happening right now, and everybody’s looking the other way from inside, I am just so, so grateful for people like you who hold some purse strings and have some power and are using that power instead of to enrich yourselves. And instead of, you know, exploiting other people and exploiting ministries, you’re trying to get some honesty here, and trying to get you know for the little guy too, who donated to Sean. I mean, when they see if you’re successful, I mean, what’s your hope that that maybe, maybe there would be a lot others that would come say, Hey, show us. Show us what happened with our money, too.

Steve Bray  44:26

Yeah, my hope is that he’ll fall in his face like he talks about, you know, and does on stage, you know. And he’ll actually repent, and actually you and Mike winger and all these, you know, got people that are really doing amazing reporting and outing one of my friends who is sort of round wound up in, you know, another problem. And he’s like, guy, these people are, they’re just, you know, coming after i. Everyone, and this was my response. Listen, Nathan the prophet waited one year before he came to David, and he said, David, you have taken something that isn’t yours. You committed a murder, basically, David in that act with Bathsheba in in Second Samuel 11, my favorite verse The Love to Hate at a time in which kings go out to war, David did the wrong thing, and he broke all 10 Commandments, all with one act of taking Bathsheba then committed murder and the whole thing. And had he had some reflection at the time, Nathan wouldn’t have had to show up. But what happens Nathan shows up. So we’ve got, you know, Nathan Julie we’ve got Nathan Mike Winger. We’ve got all these Nathan’s that are coming out and saying, Hey, you did the wrong thing. Now be accountable. My hope is that Sean will fall at his knees and say, I have to fix this. I have to do the right thing and turn this money back to, you know, turn it back to the people that gave it, or put it in some other accountable hands. And then, then he can, you know, he can rectify this. But let me tell you, Sean, he has created a situation the same way that Alan, that he’ll never be able to outlive, he’ll never be able to outrun, because of the work that people are doing like you Julie and Mike and you know, other outlets, they’re they’re basically said, we’ve had enough, and we’ve had enough of these shepherds protecting the shepherds instead of being shepherds over the sheep and protecting the sheep from the wolves.

Julie Roys  46:56

So you just recently filed this lawsuit. We’re doing this interview. I’m not exactly sure when we’ll publish it. We’re going to try to turn it around as fast as we can, but basically, we’re doing this interview the day after we published our story on the lawsuit, my understanding is you’ve been reaching out to Sean Foyt for quite a while to talk, and then after we published our story, all of a sudden he wants to talk to you. Is that right?

Steve Bray  47:24

I don’t want to mischaracterize I didn’t call him and say, hey, you know, you know, get in here. Get front and front and center. I had been doing my research, and I basically have been looking to, you know, what do I do with this, of which many of the people that had worked for him pointed me to, not only the work that you’ve done, but what what the law firm was doing. And I basically said, I think that the only way to get my money back is to file this lawsuit, which was, you know, dropped on Friday, and, and, you know, and, and out of the blue, you know, he magically contacted me, you know. And so I’m, you know, I’m, I’m ready to talk, you know, Sean, if you want to, if you want to do the Matthew 18 thing, you know, I’m ready, you know, I’m ready to do that once you step into public view with ministry, there’s no privacy. You have to be open, out there, honest, you know. And and you have to do everything properly and with, you know, full disclosure and not hide behind, oh, we’re now a church.

48:50

Yeah, 100% Yeah, 100%

Julie Roys  48:54

Well, I hope you, I hope you are successful in in your lawsuit and and when you bring up Matthew 18, and that’s a passage that says you go one on one, then if the person doesn’t listen to to you bring another, and then you bring them to the whole church. But there it’s talking about more of a personal offense. When we’re talking somebody, I mean their first Timothy 520 says if an elder is sinning, which now that Sean claims that he’s a church, you know, so he must be an elder in his church, that they are supposed to be exposed before everyone, so that others may stand in fear. So, you know, sometimes people come to me and they’ll be like, Oh, I talked to so and so the ministry, and they’re terrified of you. And I’m like, Well, if they’re not doing anything wrong, they shouldn’t be scared of me, but, but if you are doing something wrong, I mean, first you should be scared of God, like we’ve lost our fear of the Lord. And I think that’s, I mean, I sit there, and I think, do these people have no fear of God, that someday they’re going to be brought to account for how they. Is how they have taken the resources Kingdom resources and used them for themselves, and the fact that they have no shame about this is just absolutely appalling to me.

Steve Bray  50:09

Here’s my statement to that. Oh, you know, you filed a lawsuit to that. Well, good thing, Sean, you didn’t try and deceive Peter in Acts because the church had a great fear of God come over them, which is what happens. So if you get sued for doing malfeasance, then take your lumps and do the right thing and repent and turn it around.

Julie Roys  50:38

I mean, you’re absolutely correct, and I do think that the fear of the Lord that we are really, really suffering from people that have no fear of the Lord. They say they do. They’re in ministry, but the way they behave, to me shows that shows how you really what you really believe. And you know, I just, I don’t know how they sleep at night. I really don’t, but to behave this way and to defraud people and and to say it and to do it in the name of Christ, that is what is so appalling.

Steve Bray  51:11

Well, in in let me one other biblical reference, when Jesus and other disciples were talking about the wolves, but, you know, watching out for the wolves and protecting, you know, protecting the flock from the wolves. You know, I have a, I have a place in Wyoming, and we have a, you know, very big wolf population. And if you look at a wolf, a wolf will go into a herd of sheep, a group of them, five, six of them, and they will kill 200 sheep. They only eat 5% of what they kill, but they just go and kill, kill, kill, kill areas like, well, you know, we have to protect the wolves. We have to end and there’s this whole cabal of people that you know want to protect the wolves. Well, okay, you know, the a certain population of wolves is, you know, is good, but if you just let the wolves run free. I’ve seen where the wolves have killed an elk every mile and a half on this trail of destruction. That’s what they referred to, the wolves who are actually hurting people. And this has to stop.

Julie Roys  52:22

Amen, well, brother, I appreciate what you’re doing. I wish you well in your fight for justice, and I’m sure we’ll be talking to you again as this lawsuit progresses, and we’ll see what happens. But I do just pray, pray for truth and justice in this situation. So thank you,

Steve Bray  52:41

and I pray that whatever, whoever hears this, that if they’re doing malfeasance, that they’ll repent before, you know, Nathan, Nathan Royce comes and Nathan winger comes and, you know, brings him to task.

Julie Roys  52:57

So you say that, it makes me laugh, because my eldest son is Nathan Roy, so

Julie Roys  53:10

Sean Bowles, so, you know, I have a word, but no, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Blessings to you. Thank you.

Julie Roys  53:26

And thanks so much for watching the Roys report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and just a reminder that the Roys report is viewer supported. So if you appreciate our content. Would you please consider helping us out with a donation today, and when you give $50 or more to the Roy’s report this month, you can opt to receive a copy of restore your life by Mary Demuth. Mary is a dear friend of the Roy’s report, and if you heard her speak at our last restore conference, you know how devastating the past few years have been for her, like many of us, she made the painful decision to leave a church whose leadership she no longer trusted, and then was blacklisted. As a result, these kind of wounds can define us, and we can get stuck in these cycles of pain, regret and doubt, but thank God Jesus can reframe our past and rewrite our present and our future, and in restore your life, Mary invites us into this transformative process, and we would love to get this great resource in your hands. So again, you can get Mary’s book by going to Julie Roy’s spelled, R, o, y, s.com/donate, and giving a gift of $50 or more today. That’s Julie roy.com/donate’s also make sure you subscribe to the Royce report on Apple podcast, Spotify or YouTube. That way you’ll never miss an episode. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review, and then please share the. Podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content again. Thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. You.